It's Not Easy Being Mean
Moviefan12: Hello & welcome to a special collab with one of my favorite pals on the site. We've reviewed Muppet Treasure Island together and took a look at the soundtrack for the 2011 Muppets film. Today, we are going to have some fun on the evil side with the Muppet villains. The Muppets actually do have some decent baddies but they rarely ever get brought up in conservation of memorable movie villains save for maybe Doc Hopper or Constantine and that's why today, Jak and I are going to look at the the theatrical Muppet villains. Going from Doc Hopper to Constantine.
Jak: Thanks for having me. Always happy to join you for a crossover. Especially when said crossover involves the Muppets in some way.
Moviefan12: Now let's begin and we start with the original film of The Muppets, The Muppet Movie and Doc Hopper.
Doc Hopper - The Muppet Movie (1979)
Moviefan12: We start with Doc Hopper played by Charles Durning in the original "The Muppet Movie", and the Villains Wiki describes Doc Hopper as a business villain and that is very spot-on. He is the owner of Doc Hopper's Frog Legs and his dream is to expand his fast food chain restaurant and he crosses Kermit's path and wants Kermit to become the spokesfrog for his fast food chain. Understandably, Kermit refuses but Doc Hopper w will not take no for an answer and goes through great lengths to get Kermit to agree. Including hiring professional, frog killer, Snake Walker because he decides that if Kermit won't be his mascot, the frog has to die.
In my opinion, Doc Hopper was a great start to the Muppet Villains. He served as a great contrast to Kermit's ideals and how Kermit would pursue his goal in a noble way whereas Doc Hopper through the course of the film, just became more & more ruthless and would do any underhanded thing to get what he wanted and would follow the Frog and almost seems like Doc Hopper was stalking Kermit. Something of interest to bring, in the TV Movie, It's A Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, which is the Muppets' take on It's A Wonderful Life, we see a Doc Hopper's Frog Legs in the Mall in the universe, where Kermit was never born.
It is implied that without Kermit's interference, Doc Hopper was able to achieve his goal of branching out and becoming a national chain. No one was there to stop him. Just showing that Kermit had to cross paths with Doc Hopper back when he set out on his road to stardom.
Jak: The best way to describe Doc Hopper is that he is enjoyably over the top. Take every evil business owner from every movie you have ever seen and role them into one and you get this character. Charles Durning clearly had a blast playing this character and it shows. You bring up a great point, Doc Hopper is great villain for the movie because he is the exact opposite of Kermit. One thing I really like about this character is that he is clearly not used to being told “No”. So when Kermit turns down his offer, it just shocks him. He is so not use to this, that he refuses to accept it. This leads him to cross Kermit across the country and go to the extreme lengths he does in the film. This was a great character to start the film series off with, and we certainly saw elements of him in later villains.
Nicky Holiday - The Great Muppet Caper (1981)
Moviefan12: Now we come to perhaps my favorite of The Muppets villains, Nicky Holiday. He's the bad guy. Sorry, had to include that line. The big reason that I like Nicky Holiday so much is that he revels in being the bad guy. It's clear here that with The Great Muppet Caper that the Muppets were starting to ham it up with the villains. His sister, Lady Holiday dismisses as nothing more than a plot device. But seriously, Charles Grodin is having a blast playing Nicky Holiday and makes such a great jewel thief, that is rather hilarious to watch. Hit over-the-top mannerisms match perfectly with that of The Muppets. Nicky Holiday can be summed up with this line after Kermit asks him why he is doing this.
"Because I'm a villain, it's pure and simple."
Nicky knows that he's the bad guy and loves every minute of it and just makes him all the more entertaining to watch. Now, one other thing to bring up is Nicky Holiday's infatuation with Miss Piggy. It's a little weird to see a human infatuated with Miss Piggy but it does make sense as Nicky does have some of the similar traits as Miss Piggy. They both value materialistic things but tie difference is that when it counts, Piggy is there for the Muppets, whereas Nicky is in it for himself. Now, apparently, Nicky Holiday was supposed to have a cameo in The Muppets (2011) but Charles Grodin declined to appear. I think that would've been cool but I think it would've been funnier, if they had gotten him a for a cameo in the Gulag in Muppets Most Wanted.
Jak: And you didn’t even mention the worst part about him. He can’t even sing, HIS PARTS WERE DUBBED! Other than that, I don’t feel there is anything else I can add to the discussion about Nicky Holiday. He’s a villain, pure and simple. As a result, while he is fun to watch, I find him to be the least memorable of all the Muppet villains. I think part of that has to do with the fact that he is given the least amount of screen time out of all of the Muppet villains. Not a bad villain mind you, I just don’t count him among my favorites like you do. I do agree that him having a cameo in Muppets Most wanted would have been brilliant, shame it didn’t happen.
Ebenezer Scrooge - The Muppet Christmas Carol (1992)
Moviefan12: Personally, I went back & forth on whether or not to include Scrooge but I saw enough Wikis from the Muppets Wiki, the Disney Wiki, the Villains Wiki and Wickedpeida (the Disney Villains Wiki) list Scrooge as a villain. I've always felt weird with this because I've never considered Scrooge a villain. Sure before, he's visited by the ghosts, he is a deplorable man that had lost his way. And if Scrooge is really an antagonist to anyone, it's himself. Because sure, while he is mean to people around him as we see with how he treats Crachit but Scrooge is his own worst enemy. Don't get me wrong, Micheal Caine is fantastic in this role but I've never once considered Scrooge, a villain.
Jak: I’m with you on this one. I’ve never felt Scrooge was a true villain. He’s definitely a cruel man at the start of the film, don’t get me wrong, but I think putting the villain label on him is just trying to simplify a very complex character. You put it best by saying he is his own worst enemy. His mistakes are what lead him to where he was at the start of the movie, but by the end he is a completely different character. I will say I love Micheal Caine in the role. With the exception of Alastar Sim, this is my favorite version of the character. I can talk about why this is such a great role all day, but as far as discussing him as a villain, i can’t say much because he isn’t one.
Long John Silver - Muppet Treasure Island (1996)
Moviefan12: Now, we come to one villain that Jak & I have already looked at as we covered this character during my Pirate event, this summer. And I'll say that Tim Curry does a great job with the pirate role but Tim Curry is an expert on playing villains. Seriously, the guy could play a villain in his sleep. And lest we forget , he's a Professional Pirate. Now, besides the review I also did a Vs. featuring Curry's take on Silver going up against the Treasure Planet take and ultimately, Curry lost and that was mainly due to the relationship with Jim Hawkins. After having seen the original, Treasure Island, Muppet Treasure Island, and Treasure Planet, it becomes very clear that the most important relationship in the film is that between Hawkins and Silver. And while Curry and the young actor playing Hawkins portray a good friendship, it does feel lacking in some areas. However, when compared to Robert Newton, the original Silver, the relationship feels more genuine as Newton played up the nastiness too much. Actors playing this role walk a fine line, they need to convince the audience that while yes, Silver is indeed a bloodthirsty pirate that wants Flint's treasure, they also need to convey the true emotions that develop from the relationship with Jim. And for what Curry was given to work with, he does it pretty well. Putting aside Brian Murray and Robert Newton, Tim Curry delivers a fantastic take on Long John Silver that is quite memorable. I've jokingly said that Tim Curry is a human Muppet because of how well he can do over the top roles in the past but this role shows that he can do the over the top, the truly creepy, and the sentimental moments quite well. This is not an easy role for an actor to play and Curry gave it his all and delivered a great performance.
Jak: This was the first Muppet movie I had my own copy of, so I watched it a lot growing up. It also served as my introduction to Tim Curry, so his role here well always have a special place in my heart. I personally think he is absolutely great in role. Does he ham it up a little bit, sure. But he’s Tim Curry, playing a pirate, surrounded by Muppets. Ham isn’t only expected, but it’s required. While there may be stronger versions of the character out there, this is the one I think of whenever I hear the name Long John Silver. Long John is the best kind of villain, where he almost steals the shows, and you can’t help but root for him the whole time even though you know you shouldn’t.
K. Edgar Singer - Muppets From Space (1999)
Moviefan12: Yeah, I do not remember this character at all. Jak, I'll need you to take the lead on this one.
Jak: Well, this character certainly exist ……. um, yeah, not going to lie. With the exception of a few of the made for TV specials, I think he is easily the most forgettable of all the Muppet villains. I personally find Bobo the Bear and the mad scientist more memorable than our main villain. Anyways, K Edgar Singer is played by Jeffrey Tambor. His character is the head of a men in black type of organization after massive budget cuts. The first thing you will notice about him is that he is very very very monotone. Throughout the movie he is desperately trying to prove that aliens exist, something that he has received nothing but laughter for in all of his years. This has driven him insane. And I don’t mean crazy in the fun Muppet type of way, but in the “this man needs serious help” kind of way.
Ed Singer: Forgive me my Earthly manners, but, uh, do you have any idea what it’s like to be laughed at?
Gonzo: Yeah, sure I do.
Ed Singer: To be called names, like ‘wacko.’
Gonzo: Uh-huh.
Ed Singer: And ‘freak-boy.’
Gonzo: Oh, yeah.
Ed Singer: And ‘paranoid delusional psychopath’?
Gonzo: Got me there.
In the end, after many failed attempts to capture Gonzo and his family, Singer attempts to hold them at gun point. Gonzo’s family, thinking this is all one big joke, laugh which causes Singer to lose it and attempts to fire, only to discover the weapon is not loaded. Gonzo’s family, finding this hilarious and still thinking it is one big joke, invite him to come with them and become Earth’s ambassador. Singer then jumps at this opportunity, and is last seen in the UFO headed towards space.
In this way, I think you could argue that Singer is the first villain to get exactly what he wants. He wanted to prove there were aliens and he did just that, and got the added bonus of becoming a part of their culture.
Moviefan12: Well, that was all pretty much for naught as The Muppets would erase the idea of Gonzo being an alien a few years later. That only last for a couple of years and while it was nice to have a film focused on Gonzo, I don't think that fans wanted to know what he was. And after reading your description, I'm not surprised that I forgot this character. Though it does sound that he got his wish and almost got to be redeemed in the end.
Tex Richman - The Muppets (2011)
Moviefan12: I will say that with the reboot of the The Muppets back in 2011, it made sense for them to start the new franchise with a business type villain. Harkening back to the type of villain that Doc Hopper was back in the first movie. Chris Cooper does pretty well in this role, even if it's a typical evil oil tycoon and he wants to buy the Muppet Theater and drill for oil that is underneath it. Now, that's nothing too special for villains but Chris Cooper sells it. And he doesn't hide his disdain for the Muppets as he is willing to mock them in front of their faces and put them down. His hatred for The Muppets comes from the fact that he never laughed and could just do a maniacal laugh. Which becomes his trademark throughout the movie. Now, there is one thing that really bugs me with Tex Richman. His villain song, "Let's Talk about Me" is one of the worst villain songs that I have ever heard in a movie. And it is just so dumb and not at all funny but the biggest thing that bugs me is that they cut out a portion that actually explains why Richman hates the Muppets so much.
Tex: I recall a heartbreaking story
About my own tenth birthday party
Should've been a glorious day for me
I'd have been happy as can be
But the Muppets were there,
To put on a show!
They started to dance,
They were telling their jokes!
I didn't laugh,
I didn't know how!
Then my friends,
They all turned around,
And they laughed at me!
They laughed at me!
I hate you, Muppets so!
This annoys me because by cutting this, the film cut backstory that is pretty important for the character and makes his hatred of The Muppets seem a bit odd. Now, if you like me bought the soundtrack, you would have heard this part and this deleted scene was also included on the DVD release of The Muppets. I will never understand why this was caught. Now in the end, Tex is redeemed after he genuinely laughs for the first time after Gonzo hits him in the head with a bowling ball. Weird but it works for The Muppets and while Tex Richman may not be one of the best Muppets villains, he was a good start to rebooting their film career. Which sadly may not last much longer with how poorly the sequel film did at the box office.
Jak: Back when I still did my “Quick Review” series, I remember noting that one of my issues with this film was that Tex Richman didn’t seem to have a reason for hating the Muppets as much as he did. I later found out that it was because it had been cut, and he had an actual reason. Which made me question, why the heck would you want to cut this out of the movie. Yeah, the song isn’t the best in the world, but it had a point. As for the character himself, I felt they did an excellent job making a call back to Doc Hopper. Chris Cooper is enjoyably over the top. His “maniacal laugh” running gag is extremely enjoyable I still quote it to this day. Overall, I think Tex was a great villain, in a great movie that brought the Muppets back into the spotlight.
Constantine -Muppets Most Wanted (2013)
Moviefan12: We now come to the newest Muppets Villain, Constantine (preformed by Matt Vogel). The world's number one criminal and can I say that I am surprised that it took this long for The Muppets to do an evil doppelganger. He's one of the darkest villains, let's take a look see here. He blows up buildings behind him after he leaves them, after Fozzie and Walter find out the truth, he scares them with metal teeth in his mouth.
Now I do have some complaints with this movie, I love the movie but it almost seemed like in order for Constantine's plan to work, the film had to make The Muppets appear less smart than they are in some of the other movies. I mean the joke was that Constantine had a thick accent that none of The Muppets could see through. It was funny but it did bug me a bit. My stance on Constantine is that he is perhaps the scariest villains that The Muppets have gone up against. He's also very funny but he perhaps packs the most frights into any of the villains and that's saying something as we are talking about a Muppet. Now another thing of note that is pretty cool is that Constantine is the first Muppet villain to appear in the Disney parks. First in the pre-show for Muppet*Vision 3D and then earlier this year, guests to the Villains Unleashed event at Disney's Hollywood Studios could meet Constantine and this wasn't just a guy in a costume. It was actually the Constantine Muppet with Matt Vogel once again preforming him.
And if remember correctly, I heard that the lines to meet Constantine were over three hours long. I don't know if that speaks to his popularity because I've also heard that this event was handled rather poorly but to have a line that long to meet Constantine does speak volumes. As for my opinion on Constantine, I'm torn. On the one hand, he's a very effective villain but at times, I feel like he's almost too dark for a Muppet movie. He's a fine character but he is perhaps the most evil out of the characters, we've looked at and sometimes I feel like Most Wanted pushed it too far with this character such as was there really a need for him to constantly blow up things. He certainly did leave an impression and is the most memorable thing from Most Wanted.
Jak: With the possible exception of Long John Silver, who you could argue was more of an anti-hero, Constantine was the first villain to be the focus of the movie. This is also the first time the film makers committed to the idea of a Muppet being the main villain. Sure, you saw elements of it the Moppets, but they were barely in the last movie and does anyone really remember them at all?
I agree that I feel that the other main Muppets did seem a little dumbed down. Expect Animal, but that just goes to prove why he is the best Muppet. Though if I remember right, there was a Muppet Show episode where Kermit was replaced by a robot and nobody noticed, so it’s hardly unestablished that the Muppets aren’t the most observant.
I actually quite like Constantine. This is was the first villain who I felt could actually pull off his evil scheme. I’m not sure if he could work as a recurring character, but as a one off villain, i think he works great. Though while I don’t personally feel he was too dark, I do see where some people are coming from.
Moviefan12: Jak, thanks for joining for yet another Muppetastic cross over. I'm glad that we were able to spotlight these villains as all too often, I feel like people tend to forget that The Muppets have had some decent villains. And like any franchise, they have great villains like Doc Hopper or villains that aren't very memorable. Some are better than others and this was quite fun to do.
Jak: Thanks again for having me. I had a great time as always. It was certainly fun to shine a spotlight on the more over looked characters in the Muppet family. And thank you for reading our crossover. Do you have a favorite? If so be sure to let us know.
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