Can We Talk about The Disney Princess Line (With DisneyOtoko)

Tim: Hello, my friends. Today two Disney bloggers joins forces to tackle one of the most notorious things to come from Disney. Some say it has besmirched their name. No, it's not Home On The Range.   I would never make a another person suffer through that.  (Plus I've already reviewed that) No, today DisneyOtoko and I will be discussing  the Disney Princess line.   

Tim: Before we get to far into things let's take a look at  how  this franchise line came to be.  

In early 1999, when Andy Mooney was hired by Disney's Consumer Products division to help combat dropping sales, the idea for the Disney Princess franchise was born. Soon after joining Disney, Mooney attended his first Disney on Iceshow. While waiting in line, he found himself surrounded by young girls dressed as princesses. "They weren’t even Disney products. They were generic princess products", he mused. Soon after realizing the demand, the Disney Princess line 

Jack: Hello Moviefan12 and thanks for for having me! This is a very interesting topic and in order to truly understand the circumstances of its origin we must actually travel back to when Walt Disney died 45 years ago. When Walt died the company lost its leader and a sense of direction. The old animators did their best, but the 1970s and early 1980s is thought of by most hardcore Disney fans as a fairly dark period because more mediocre live action films were being made and the animated films while quite solid lacked the magic of films when Walt was alive(except for TRON cause that was awesome). For anyone who has seen the fantastic documentary "Waking Sleeping Beauty" then you know that this period came to an end when Micheal Eisner and frank Wells were brought on to run the company along with Roy E. Disney. Soon after Jeffrey Katzenberg was brought on to head the animation department. The new generation of artists were trained by the best and wanted to prove themselves and after many disagreements and arguments a period of unprecedented success and growth came about called the Animation Renaissance(officially starting with The Little Mermaid in 1989).

This period reached its apex in 1994 with the release of the Lion King and it was at this point in time where the tension between Roy, Eisner and Katazenberg had reached a boiling point and Katzenberg left Disney and the tension between those that were left only worsened. It's no surprise that the last half of the Animation renaissance wasn't as strong as the first with the loss of consistency in the quality of the films. For example: Pocahontas is okay, Hunchback of Notre Dame is awesome, Hercules was okay, Mulan was great, and Tarzan was quite good. These constant string of film coming out year after year was very good, however, it made the company creatively bankrupt so in other words the artistic well had run dry. The 21st century in my opinion is the true dark age of Disney where they started releasing schlock and sequels. Television suffered the worst when their healthy universal animated adventure shows were replaced with teeny bopper shows like Hannah Montana and Wizards of Waverly Place (Even Stevens and Lizzie McGuire were actually good).

"There were very few good films from the company such as Fantasia 2000, Lilo and Stitch, (arguably Treasure Planet) Pirates, Home on the Range (kidding). I find it very ironic that during this dark age the best Disney story ever was released called Kingdom Hearts! I am proud to say with the release of Enchanted Disney has been slowly, but surely weening itself off the teeny bopper crap by going back to what made them popular, film and animation (Princess and the Frog, Tangled, TRON Legacy, Winnie the Pooh, The Muppets). In 2204 Disney released that they were going to make a franchise of merchandise and media that would feature classic Disney princesses and that it would be marketed to young girls. This was an ingenious thing to do economically and it would give them an insane profit, but it was something born out of desperation, not artistry or creativity. But the question remains is it good? Well for me it is hit or miss. It depends on the stories that are presented in the DVDs that are released and the music that is produced in those albums. What do you think Moviefan12?

Tim:  While I'll agree that some of it is bad and the sequels can drive me up the wall.  We also need to factor in certain things.  In many ways this line looking back now seems almost inevitable.  Because besides making movies,  nowadays Disney also makes toys and other things such a their collectibles.   I think you could also make the point that perhaps Disney was trying to compete with Barbie.  

Even though as seen here with this picture that Disney has worked with Barbie in the past.  This franchise also reminds me of  something said by  Joe Quesada in an interview on the Disneyland podcast,  Mousetalgia  stating that he believes  Disney has a wider female fanbase and  he hoped by bringing Marvel into Disney would bring in a wider male fanbase. Now perhaps there is a bigger female fanbase for Disney but as both DisneyOtoko and I can attest there are plenty of  Male Disney fans.  

Going back to this line for a second, while I may not be a father yet,   I think one of the best ways to look at this and  put myself in those shoes.  In that instant,  I don't think  this would be too bad and I think that this would be an okay way to introduce my hypothetical daughter (let's call her Amber) to these classic characters.  True,  I'd rather introduce her to the films starring these classic Disney ladies first.  But  say I was to do that, just as I like Mickey, she might end up liking a character such as Rapunzel or Ariel and might want some toys or books based around these characters and the Disney Princess line produces toys based on some of these toys and I would be okay with buying Amber those toys.   Because in a way that would be her just finding a way to celebrate her love for Disney.   Trust me, there are some quibbles I have with this franchise but I'll come to that later. DisneyOtoko, what's your take?


Jack: Disney never had to rely on another company to bring in male fans. They have always appealed to everyone. Back when I was going to elementary school it was perfectly okay to like Disney or the princess films. No one laughed at you because the films were made for people not just boys or girls. Disney has always been a company that used merchandise. In fact I think they created merchandising with Mickey Mouse merchandise. Even with merchandise they never lost sight that they were artists and storytellers. They would never diminish their dignity as artists for the sake of making a quick buck with merchandise. 

You are correct to say that this franchise was inevitable, but more thought and effort should have gone into it and these characters are more than capable of being appealing to both males and females and the fact that they don't put the effort forward to make a connection to everyone is very off putting and disappointing. By going down this route with the ladies they didn't think of the consequences of creating this very tight demographic. Disney shot itself in the foot by driving away its male audience when these characters could have easily appealed to them. As I said it was rushed and it was a decision made out of desperation for ideas to make a quick buck, but I will admit it is a great way to keep these characters in the public consciousness, and the potential is still there. I just believe that we as fans (NOT just male fans, but fans in general) and more importantly these great characters deserve better.

Tim: I will agree that we do deserve better and going back to the male fan statement for a second here,  I believe that Disney did try to make a male counterpart line titled Disney Heroes but it proved to not be as popular as this franchise and in many ways, I kind of feel that the Princess line has had it's moment in the spotlight and now it is all about Tinkerbell and the Disney Fairies.

Though one thing that I have to question on this line are some of it's selections and I have never seen it said anywhere what qualifies some of the ladies chosen because some of the choices for this line perplex me for instance before the Fairies line came along, Tink was part of this line.  I also believe that Meg from Hercules and Alice from Alice in Wonderland have been included as unofficial princesses.    Which is stretching it and while they do appear in some of the toys, they are never part of the main line.   But there is one character's inclusion that to this day can get me going on  a wild rampage.   Who is that character?

Mulan, she is actually considered an official Disney Princess and I had to go back and re read the plot for her film but not once does she ever become a princess.  She is offered a job as an adviser but not once do we ever see her as as princess and she is never addressed as Princess Mulan either.  Here is a group shot  of all of the Disney Princesses with Mulan right smack in the center.

This is something that I can't explain but it is a decision that has left me less than thrilled.    Sure, this may be nitpicky but it bugs me.




Jack: I completely agree with you. It makes absolutely no sense that Mulan is included. They're probably doing it out of a PC why don't you have an Asian princess? sort of thing, but it's still stupid. She is of a warrior class and gets appointed to be the royal adviser to the emperor, but I believe she turns that job offer down so she can go home. That and Pocahontas being a princess is also stupid and is culturally insensitive to that particular tribe of Native Americans. They believed the land belonged to everyone and had no sense of ownership and no real hierarchy except the chief who only made the really important decisions. Pocahontas was the chief's daughter nothing more, nothing less. There's nothing royal about it. 

My standards of becoming a Disney princess are that you are born royalty or marry into royalty. Also you must have all the basic personality traits with a few adjustments depending on the story of their movie. And most importantly they must earn the title by withstanding the test of time!!! The thing that annoys me about the immediate inclusion of Rapunzel and Tiana is the fact that the second their movies were released they were inducted. The other princesses had to stick around for about 10 years to 70 years to be included.

 The classic 6 of Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Ariel, Belle and Jasmine earned their place in the franchise by being in the hearts and minds of so many people for so long with only Kingdom Hearts and a tv show supporting them at most. Tiana and Rapunzel aren't old enough yet to truly determine whether they have the long lasting appeal of the others so the jury is still out on whether they are worthy despite the fact their films are good. The only reason why these two will last is because Disney is shoving them out with the Princess line instead of letting the characters withstand the test of time on their own merit."

Tim: Going back to the inclusion of Rapunzel & Tiana for a second, I'm not sure if your aware or not but at the last D23,  the voices of the Disney Princesses including the voice of  Tiana, Anika Noni Rose were honored as Disney Legends.  I can understand the likes of Jodi Benson and  Paige O' Hara getting this honor but I don't believe Anika Noni Rose has been around long enough to be considered a Disney Legend.    I just had to bring that up, But now let's move on to DVD's.   This seems to be the big money maker for this line, The DVD's.  Their have been plenty of them 

Let me just say that I have never watched one of these DVD's because A. I'm not the intended  audience and B. they look beyond bad.  However I have stumbled across a song or two on YouTube.  And well, that quality is about that of a direct to video sequel.

This song here appears to be the theme for this franchise and believe it or not that is actually Jodi Benson as Ariel.   Now yes, I have included another song with her as Ariel from this line in the past when I did my Christmas reviews but at least that one sounded unique.   You know how some people complain that Disney songs have started to sound generic,  this is that kind of song.  Is it bad?  No, not really but it is just so bland and in my eyes that is worse.   If your going to give these ladies a song, make it one worthy of their legacy.  This isn't it.    I know DisneyOtoko said that the fans deserve better but in this instance I'm willing to put these lovely ladies first because they deserve so much better. And they have been given better before too.   If you want an example of a decent song featuring a Disney Princess that isn't from her film, take a listen to the song In Harmony from  The Little Mermaid TV show. Sure, I know I said in my review of this episode that this song isn't anything special when compared to the film's soundtrack but at least it is somewhat catchy and a little bit more memorable

Jack: This may shock you, but I actually like "If You Can Dream". I truly believe it is a worthy anthem of the franchise and embodies what I love about these characters. I can understand the way you feel,but I think it followed the formula of a classic Princess song. It has all the same themes that are discussed in those songs and the best part is that the song is for the most part understated! If you really think about it all of the classic princess songs including "True Love's Kiss" from Enchanted (I can't believe I forgot to talk about the lovely Giselle) are always holding back. "Someday my Prince Will Come", "A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes", "Once Upon a Dream", "Part of Your World", "Belle", Jasmine's song in the Aladdin show at California Adventure, "True Love's Kiss" they all are very soft and toned down and then they have a little bit of over the top musical number moments and then the song tones down.

This showcases the characters' honor and humility towards their dream. The song isn't in your face and too over the top that we care more about the feel of the song then about the deeper meaning of the song. I hate to pick on Princess and the Frog again (see Pinocchio review for the first time I did it), but that was my problem with "Almost There" it just didn't get the honor, respect and humility, and subtlety of the princess song and the motivations of the character. Yes "If You Can Dream" isn't anything new and we've all heard much better songs from the original films, but it is a song that is more than worthy of the legacy of these beautiful ladies. Now if you want a song that insults not only the legacy of these wonderful women, but insults the intelligence of little girls everywhere feast your eyes on the dreadful "Every Girl can be a Princess" Ughhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tim: Yeah, uh WOW!  I'll take If You Can Dream over that song.  That one is worse.  Was the lady singing even awake and aware when she sang that and adding the mice in as the chorus, were they trying to make this song more annoying?   You know what song this reminds me of by Disney Legend, Hayley Mills.

This song from Summer Magic is more a product of it's time but comparing these two songs, it is clear in my mind that this is the stronger song and it feels more natural and fluid than that other song.

Tim:  Now for this next part, I'm turning it over to DisneyOtoko to talk about one of the many direct-to-videos that came from this line.

Jack: Now in 2007 a DVD was released called Enchanted Tales. The stories would contain two featurettes starring Aurora and Jasmine. The ladies tell their stories to teach us life lessons. Today's lesson: PERSEVERANCE! Now before you click off the blog let me explain the good things and bad things and believe me there's plenty of each.

First the bad. All of Aurora's story. Yes this was a perfect opportunity to give dimensions to a character who in the original film didn't have them because that story demanded it. Alas the writers fail miserably. Basically King Stefan, His Queen, Prince Philip and King Hubert have to leave for a royal watchamahuzit leaving Aurora to be in charge of the kingdom for a couple of days. Aurora suddenly turns in a vain little insert 5 letter word here (I can't bring myself to call a Disney princess that even if she is acting like one) and starts bragging about how she has "the keys to the kingdom" in song of course. Oh and by the ay the music is unoriginal. The music is the same one that's used in the JT Wentworth commercial in the opera. Anyway the 3 good fairies arrive to help, but they have to go on an errand, but Merryweather gives Aurora her wand for emergencies. Aurora initially refuses saying she must "stick with it" and not use magic. She gives in and makes things worse. She stops using it and does things normal and that is how you persevere! Give me a break. You know what persevering is? It's Aurora having a trauma towards darkness, magic and fireplaces because it reminds her of the spinning wheel and she's haunted by Maleficent's ghost. The special uses classic psychological direction to make the audience guess if the ghost is real or in Aurora's head and how she deals with her problem and eventually through sheer force of will gets over her phobias by talking with her friends and family and searching within her own kindness and will. That's perseverance! Luckily the Jasmine story is much better and is far more interesting.

" Jasmine's story takes place presumably in between the show and King of Thieves (if this is canon). Aladdin and Genie are off on some other adventure leaving Carpet, Abu and Iago as the supporting characters. This is interesting because the special doesn't have the 2 most popular characters to rely on as a crutch which means they really have to entertain us and as a direct to video special goes I think they did. Jasmine is working on various projects and finds them boring and wants the Sultan to give her more taxing and important jobs so she can prove her worth (she sings a bad song about it, but the idea is fine). The Sultan appoints her to work with her cousin (one that we've never heard of) as basically a Student Teacher and having to deal with a bunch of brats. We are also introduced to the horse Sahara who is a very unruly horse. Sahara was Jasmine's mother's horse and only she could ride it and no one has succeeded in riding him after the queen's death. It's implied that the horse has killed other would be riders before and that's why the Sultan is very leery of letting Jasmine get close to him. Why doesn't the Sultan put down the horse? Because it's too sentimental and as long as a distance is kept and food is given everything is okay. Jasmine is about to give up teaching, but her aid tells her to PERSEVERE and she'll get through it just fine. The confidence booster comes when Sahara has escaped and Jasmine finds him and successfully tames him. The special is very average. Nothing outstanding, but nothing truly bad or awful. In fact as bad as the songs are they're still entertaining and there were a few moments where I did laugh out loud. One of those moments was when Iago was interrogating Abu on where Sahara went. This was a huge step up from the Aurora story and it did prove that this franchise was capable of producing competent stories.


Jack: The Disney Princess franchise may have been created as a cash in in a very dark time in Disney history, but to say it was a terrible idea is simply being narrow minded. There were good things that came out of it. Sure their induction process makes no sense whatsoever and it utterly destroyed Disney's male audience, but it had the great classic characters remain in the public consciousness and as cliched as the morals are they are good morals and little girls can look up to them as role models. The franchise can occasionally churn out competent stories and it even has a solid theme song "If You Can Dream". For the most part it does these characters justice (except Ariel where she's no longer an adventurer, but we have Kingdom Hearts for that). It's been a pleasure Moviefan12! Good Day!

Tim:  The way I look at it,  I'm not the intended audience for this line and while some decisions about this line bug me, the line itself doesn't bug me as much because going back to the hypothetical scenario that I brought up in the beginning, this is just one way for young girls to explore their Disney fandom and have the Princesses they love with them 24/7.   To that I say who am I to mock this line.  Yes, I have done that a bit but I believe that was because I didn't understand it.  Again, DisneyOtoko thanks for this wonderful suggestion and thanks for joining me.